Cairo – Less than one month before the 2nd Summit of Arab-South American Countries (Aspa), to take place on April 1st, in Doha, Qatar, the Brazilian Foreign Minister, Celso Amorim, said, in an exclusive interview to ANBA, that both regions may find joint mechanisms to face the international financial crisis, with the creation of an Arab-South American Fund for Investment.
He pointed out yesterday (03), in Cairo, that after the 1st Summit, which took place in May 2005, in Brazilian capital Brasília, the closer ties between South America and the Arab world have been evolving in a very satisfactory way and, little by little, are becoming a common project between both regions. Amorim pointed out that biregional trade has grown in a considerable manner and cooperation in different sectors is becoming more intense.
The minister was the only top-echelon authority from Latin America to participate in the Donors Conference for Gaza Recovery, which took place on Monday in Sharm El Sheikh, in Egypt. He stressed the interest of Brazilian diplomacy in greater involvement in the question of the Middle East.
During his trip to Egypt, Amorim spoke to the country’s minister of Finance, Youssef Boutros Ghali, who is the president of the International Monetary and Financial Committee, an organisation under the International Monetary Fund (IMF). They discussed the matter of reforms of international financial institutions.
The Foreign Minister also handed a letter from Brazilian president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva to the president of Egypt, Hosni Mubarak, restating his invitation to visit Brazil. Today he should participate in a preparatory ministerial meeting for the 2nd Summit. Below is the interview:
ANBA – You have already met president Mubarak, Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit and the Finance Minister. How were these meetings?
Celso Amorim – I met with president Mubarak during the conference in Sharm El Sheikh. At the occasion I congratulated him for the event, as we had already spoken more profoundly a month and a half ago. In reality the objective of my talks with the president and with minister Aboul Gheit was to restate the invitation to visit Brazil. I felt that the president was pleased with the invitation. I felt this due to the way he speculated about possible periods for the visit, showing that there is interest on his side.
In my meeting with minister Youssef Boutros Ghali we spoke, overall, of the need of working on reforms in international financial organisations. As everybody knows, Brazil is calling for a change in the voting system within organisations like the IMF, so that it may better reflect the reality of the world today. I think that, in the world today, the establishment of the G-20, which, in reality, has already taken over from the G8, is recognition that, without countries like Brazil, China, India and others, it is not possible to solve the great financial problems of the world. For this reason we believe that this reality should also be reflected in the voting system. It is not possible for a small European country, whose monetary policy is not even dictated by its Central Bank, to have greater voting power than China, for example.
It has already been almost four years since the first ASPA Summit and we are on the eve of the second. How do you evaluate the evolution, the closer ties between both regions? Do you believe that the initial objectives have been accomplished, or is anything yet to be done?
I believe that we have reached the initial objectives. This is obviously not a process that ends from night to day. We must admit that, in general, both businessmen and cultural agents are always more used to travelling the routes that are already known. And whenever you try to open new routes you find difficulties created, sometimes by inertia itself. But I feel that we have managed, for example, in the case of Brazil, to generate an increase of trade with the Arab countries that is very significant. We currently have with the Arab countries global trade of US$ 20 billion, whereas in the year of the first Summit it was no greater than US$ 8 billion. Therefore there is significant growth. I was observing trade with a small country, but very rich: Qatar. I noticed that Brazilian exports to the country were US$ 23 million at that time, and now they are US$ 300 million. This shows great growth in knowledge and interest in Brazil by these countries.
Has there also been greater activity in the area of investment between both blocs?
Of course investment is also advancing in a visible way. I know, for example, that there has been Egyptian investment in the electronics area in Minas Gerais. Brazil should soon open a Marcopolo bus factory in Egypt, and I have noticed similar factors in Libya, Algeria, Saudi Arabia and in Qatar itself. We opened two or three new embassies in the Arab world and some countries have done the same in Brazil. A direct flight between Brazil and the Emirates was also created, expanding the tourism flow and, for this reason there is greater human contact.
In the cultural area of the ASPA, we have Algiers library and a cultural institute in Tangiers. In Brazil, the number of institutes of Arab studies has been growing. What there already was in São Paulo is much more active and in Rio de Janeiro a new one was established.
What is the impact of the work for follow up of the ASPA, and the ministerial meetings that are part of it, on the generation of closer ties between both blocs?
The ministerial meetings are certainly having a good effect. For example, there was recently, in Riyadh, an important meeting in the area of irrigation. Meetings in the social politics area are also taking place and are having good repercussions between both groups. But I should say that many times these meetings go beyond the ASPA programs and from them come other bilateral or trilateral programs. I certainly believe that these closer ties have been a great success.
At a moment in which the world is facing a financial crisis, do the closer ties between South America and the Arab world include some joint mechanisms to deal with this matter?
There are some experiences within the Mercosur that could interest the Arab world. Last year we created something useful to face the crisis, a mechanism for payment in the local currency between Brazil and Argentina. When trading between these countries, it is no longer necessary to use dollars or euros. We pay in reals or pesos (the respective currency of the buyer). This, in my point of view, is something that may be extended to a greater group of developing nations.
We could also try to establish a development fund for common projects. They are ideas that sooner or later may be discussed in the scope of the ASPA summit. In this respect, I think that the Arab-South American Fund for Investment is something that should be studied, as these countries have important common interests in several themes, like energy safety, climate change and food. In some cases they are complementary countries, in others there may be different solutions.
Traditionally, both Brazil and South America and the Arab world have been turned to the countries of the North. What has made these nations turn more towards each other?
Nowadays, when I observe the global financial crisis and see why Brazil was relatively less affected, I notice that there are basically two reasons for this. One of them was the growth of our domestic market, due to our social programs, which were very successful and created a consumption category that did not exist before. Another was the diversification of our foreign trade. Fortunately we no longer depend on just one market. Five or six years ago, the United States, Europe and Japan represented around 60% of our foreign trade. Nowadays, on the other hand, we have much more important foreign trade with developing countries. Our closer ties with the Arab world partly enter this logic, even if our interest in closer ties with the Arab world goes beyond the purely commercial scope.
There is clearly great Brazilian diplomatic interest in the region. You travelled here in January and yesterday (on Monday), you were the only ministerial representative of Latin America at the Donors Conference for Gaza Recovery.
Yes, Brazil is certainly now more involved in political questions in the Middle East. I believe that the possibility of Brazil playing a part in the political dialogue is understood by all. I believe that Brazil may not be absent from the world. Important global happenings, especially those of the region, also affect Brazil, sometimes through the price of oil, others due to the financial crisis that is certainly connected to political matters. I therefore believe that Brazil must be present in the World. When I was with president Mubarak, I said that the question of the Middle East needs fresh air, new ideas. He agreed, and repeated my words.
President Lula had actually presented a plan…
President Lula’s idea, which is based on the experience of Annapolis (a peace conference in the Untied States), was to focus not on a conference that could produce the "peace process", but one that could promote peace itself. I believe that, not just the people of the region, but humanity itself is hostage to this situation. To connect president Lula’s to the reality of the happenings, yesterday (Monday), the intention of the Russians of promoting an Annapolis 2 in Moscow was confirmed. This idea coincides exactly with the thoughts of president Lula.
*Translated by Mark Ament
